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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:17 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:37 am
Posts: 75
Location: United States
Andy,
I posted a similar post to this and received great advice from everybody! My plane it turns out didn't work so good for me...so until I get a new one....I used double stick tape on a level and made a shooting board set-up and clamped in my vise. I leveled my boards and sanded on the top. I was able to see my progress from the side as I sanded. I'm sure this would work with a "good" plane also. I did use the shooting board on a table, but felt more comfortable with the boards in a vise. I am putting my top on an electric. I can't see any light through the seam, so I guess I did all right!
Mark


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:23 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5915
Location: United States

even with a GOOD plane you need to develop good planing technique. It takes a little practice.

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Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:46 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Netherlands
I've been using a UK-made #4, and I've now got a nice, old, vintage Stanley Bailey #5 that needs just a little bit more love and attention.

Plane technique, for joining tops, isn't something I find terribly difficult. Smooth movements, shallow cuts, and even pressure usually do the trick quite nicely. It's getting the plane set up properly in the first place, and everything razor sharp that takes more time. Joining backs (for EIR and Khaya, anyway) was a touch quicker/easier, though, has to be said. Difference was minor. The biggest problem is knowing when to stop; there's something terribly appealing about the smooth feel of a well-sharpened plane making translucent shavings..


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:52 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 886
Location: United States
A couple of comments on this...

Don't use a jointer for this critical joint, you can get a much better joint by hand using either a flat sandpaper board or a handplane. There's a story about C.F. Martin coming back to the factory after retiring and throwing a fit because they where joining tops using a jointer, I think he was onto something (I know I'll get knocked for this :)

I use a shooting board and a Lie-Nelson #7 Jointing plane, I find the extra weight and length of the plane allows me to get a perfect candled joint with a minimum of fuss. The smaller planes are more prone to follow uneven lines, while the #7 is long enough to ignore them.

-Paul-

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:35 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:18 pm
Posts: 785
Location: United States
I use a 24" jointer (a woodie). I like the woodie because it's cheaper than a good #7/#8, because it works great, and because I get to tell people about my 24" woodie.   

Compared to the tailed jointer, there is no comparison. The quality of joint you get from a handplane that shaves the wood flat is far superior to a power jointer that chips away at it in a circular motion.

In terms of ease of use, my 24" woodie is a breeze. I can joint a top/back set (or anything else) in less than two minutes. The two minutes breaks down into (1) 30 seconds to pull out the woodie and the shooting board, (2) 15 seconds to clamp the back/top down, (3) 15 seconds to take 3 or 4 passes with the plane, and (4) 30 seconds to admire my handiwork.

It takes me longer than that to plug in the power jointer, put on safety glasses, and find my push-paddles.

A few people have commented about why they don't use the big hand planes, and tend to go with shorter planes. I won't argue with what works for other people, but here's why I use the long jointer for making joints. First, that's what it's for. The longer the plane, the flatter the jointed surface. The shorter the plane, the more likely you are to end up with a slightly convex/concave joint that needs to be re-planed if you want a light-tight joint. On boards this short, it is less likely to be a problem, but the principle remains true. I see no reason not to get all of the flat sole you can if you are jointing wood.

Second, the biggest complaint people have is usually about how difficult it is to wield such a big plane, and how you need to develop good planing technique. I respectfully disagree. If you find it difficult to wield a big plane, or if you are having problems with your planing technique, it is because you are trying to plane your joints freehand. There is no good reason to plane joints freehand (unless you really enjoy it), especially for joints as critical as top and back plates. I once attended a woodworking seminar on handtools by Graham Blackburn. He wisely taught that people tend to confuse using hand tools with using tools freehand. When you are going for accuracy, it is just as important to use fences and guides with handtools as it is with power tools. A slow woodworker can build a shooting board in five minutes that will give him easy, perfect joints for the rest of his life. My first experience with a handplane was using a shooting board, and there are few things in woodworking as easy as that. My ten-year-old son jointed his top and back plates on a guitar he built using my 24" jointer and a shooting board, and they were both easy and perfect; if he can do it, so can we!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:41 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:51 am
Posts: 2148
Location: San Diego, CA
First name: Andy
Last Name: Zimmerman
City: San Diego
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92103
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Thanks for all of the input.
This has been a long thread.
I am getting the impression that there are many ways to do it.
But clearly and bench plane whether short (14') or a long jointer is the way
to go.

Thanks again

Andy

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http://www.lazydogguitars.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:58 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
This has come up while I've been in 'hurry-up-and-learn mode' on the very
subject of planes, so thanks to everybody for this - I'm taking in every scrap
I can find!chmood38635.9621412037


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:12 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
One thing I have learned over the years is there is no such thing as a hurry up and learn mode when it come most of luthierie using a plane is no exseption. Good technique comes from doing, failing and refining to achieve success


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:25 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:07 am
Posts: 2281
Location: Jones, OK
[QUOTE=MichaelP] Good technique comes from doing, failing and refining to achieve success[/QUOTE]

Amen to that!

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:47 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
agreed: what I mean is, my enthusiasm is at full flood, and I'm downing
huge quantities of info every day - I'm under no delusion that I can master
the luthier's arts in 30 days - or even 30 years: I'm just ready to get going!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:57 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
So Chmood, are you building or prepairing to build your first? If so what? Iquiring mind want to know


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